The Issue:
As long as kids have had rooms, a battle has been raging. Parents versus kids. Parents want kids’ rooms to be clean (or at least not a health hazard). Kids want the right to keep their space how they want it (to wallow in their own filth). Will a peace treaty ever be reached? We’re looking for your thoughts and opinions? What are the rules at your house? Please take take to a minute to weigh in, because your vote counts. On Wednesday, the votes will be counted. If more people voted that kids should be able to have their own space, then Matthew does not have to clean up his room. If more people vote that messy rooms are not acceptable, then Matthew has his work cut out for him. A mess like that could take hours (if not days) to undo.
Voting is not to be taken lightly. It is important to do your research. Read Matthew’s viewpoint (his first attempt at a persuasive essay, making it a cleverly disguised homeschool assignment). View the room in question. Read my viewpoint below. Leave your vote in the comment of either blog. You do not have to leave your comment on the blog of the person you agree with. You may comment anywhere. Don’t forget to ask your kids, lest the outcome be tainted by an adult only vote. Vote away!
The Room in Question:
Can you spot Matthew in this room? He’s in there…….
Find him yet?
Mom’s Side:
I’m all about kids having their own space. And I won’t even pull out the old tried and true argument about how the parents pay for the house, not the kids, so all of the house, even the kids’ rooms, technically belong to the parents. My problem with Matthew’s room is not so much that it is messy, but the fact that things are not being taken care of. There are DVDs and Legos and model airplanes and a computer! in that mess. How long can you trample over things (or roll your wheeled desk chair over things) before you break something important? I understand losing a favorite DVD or toy to breakage would be a natural consequence, but the wastefulness of that lesson still bothers me. We do not have the money to allow things be handled so carelessly.
Do you see the laundry draped over everything in those pictures? Yeah, it’s it in there…as in not in the laundry piles to be washed or hampers. Ask Matthew why he doesn’t have any clean underwear. The problem with that is…he doesn’t care. He would happily wear the same clothes…underwear included….forever. Shudder.
Food is generally not allowed in Matthew’s room. Every once in awhile, we will allow a juice box or fruit snacks. Well, the food may go in, but the trash does not come out. Empty juice boxes, to me, do not have anything to do with having your own space.
I think I would be more willing to change my viewpoint on allowing the mess, if Matthew weren’t like a bull in a china shop. As long as things are not being cared for (and trampled), the mess has to go. We have tried compromises in the past, ie: picking up all breakable items, make sure all clothing is put out to be washed, or he washes it himself….nothing has really worked. The breakable stuff, inevitably ends up on the floor, (usually within hours), and Matthew doing his own laundry is a process that inconveniences everyone else. So right now, having his own space how he likes it, is a privilege I do not believe he has earned.
Go to Matthew’s side.
30 responses so far ↓
1 The Great Debate « In the Air // Nov 3, 2007 at 9:11 pm
[…] essay, making it a cleverly disguised homeschool assignment) below. View the room in question. Read Mom’s viewpoint. Leave your vote in the comment of either blog. You do not have to leave your comment on the blog […]
2 Momma Kim // Nov 3, 2007 at 11:13 pm
I am a mom, and I adore Mel already, although we may never meet this side of heaven. However, after looking at Matthew’s room, and reading his side, I can see why he says that it’s hard to clean!
I don’t see many places to put the things that are scattered all over. Is there a closet? If so, and it’s empty, then that’s a point for Mel. However, if it’s crammed with stuf f that is rarely used, then it IS hard to clean up, and that’s a point for Matthew. I see one short bookcase, and maybe there are storage bins under the bed? But is the futon blocking one? Can you get some more shelving in there, or some bookcases?
Making kids clean rooms that are overstuffed or used for storage of things that aren’t even theirs IS unfair. A disorganized space sucks at any age when you desperately need to find something NOW. It’s a royal PITA.
This is drastic, but it’s the only way that you really change it for keeps. Empty out the room. Every last flippin’ lego. Vacuum. Spot clean the carpet if needed (baby wipes are great… just enough soap and moisture! ) Then set up as much storage as you can. Cubbies, bookcases, over-the-door pockets, anything sturdy and reachable by the kid. Clothes and shoes that are not in season or do not properly fit don’t go back in, they go into storage. Ripped and permanently stained stuff goes into the trash or the dustrag bucket. Start with a week’s worth of play clothes, one better outfit for church or whatever, only the shoes that go with the clothes, two by two and in a specifi location for shoes only, and jammies.
Now for the stuff. Get inexpensive baskets for the little stuff that will fit in whatever storage furniture you have, and let the kid decide what he is still really interested in. The rest doesn’t go back in. It’s tossed, donated, or goes into storage.
Once there is a place for everything, cleaning up isn’t hard anymore. Let’s get this room to that point and see if both Mel and Matthew can win this one.
I’m speaking from experience. I have 4 girls, (no legos, but literally thousands of pieces of Playmobil, naked Barbies and their clothes, Littlest Pet Shop, and My Little Ponies. ) They all put their own laundry into the hamper, and put their own clean clothes away. Even the 4 year old puts her own folded laundry into cubbies that she can reach, and pairs up her shoes in the closet. But, sure, sometimes it will get past their ability to clean, so I will literally get the broom and sweep whatever is on the floor into a pile, and go get the vac. While I vac the room, (I do this so that they don’t choke my central vac with an unseen sock under the bed) they sort and put away from the pile (see, you can instantly walk through the room, so it’s pretty fast) and within 15 minutes we can be ready for “Daaaaad’s home!!!!!”
3 Marlena // Nov 3, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Oh, I remember having this argument when I was growing up! I was a lot like Matthew, with an incredibly messy room, and I couldn’t understand why my parents made me clean it. I would holler and cry and carry on the whole time I was cleaning it, vowing that when I grew up, I would never clean my room again. I’m really glad they made me do it now, though, because I can see the value in being able to find something quickly, and in being able to complete a task (like my laundry) in only an hour a week, rather than the same job taking four times as long because I put it off. It’s hard to get used to, but once you’ve lived in a clean room, you won’t want to go back! As for not being able to find things in a clean room (or was it having to search for the right place for something?), maybe Matthew can come up with his own storage system that works for him. I have definitely found it’s easier for me to keep things neat if I designate a space for stuff. Nothing too crazy (I have friends who are so organized, they make Martha Stewart look like a slob), but I have a spot where my yarn goes, and a space for my magazines, and as long as I have my stuff in the right general area, the place stays fairly neat. I do still struggle with keeping tidy! So basically, my vote is that Matthew should clean his room! Also, it’s fun to come up with storage solutions!
4 Dory // Nov 4, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Chalk one up for MOM.
5 kristen // Nov 5, 2007 at 12:06 am
I think the room has to be cleaned. But I agree that Matthew should be able to have a say in how and where things are stored. He should also be involved in any kind of reorganization or choosing any new storage containers.
I think it’s important for kids to take care of their things, to respect the fact that these things cost money and that someone had to earn that money. It’s about respect, to me. And not just respect for his actual possessions, but respect for maintaining his share of the house. Let’s face it, if you don’t take care of things, they begin to lose their value. And in this case, a messy, dirty, uncared for room will start to show a great deal of physical wear and tear–stains on the carpet, spots on the wall, little creatures moving in to the piles of trash. When I look at the photos of that room, it looks like a whole lotta stuff being taken for granted (sorry Matthew!).
I know Mel said that if the votes go against Matthew, he’s got a lot of work cut out for him…but, I think the clean up should be a joint effort and I think that if Matthew were excited about contributing ideas on how to organize his things and maintain order, then keeping the room clean and organized should be easy as pie.
6 AngelNicki // Nov 5, 2007 at 3:41 am
Being a very messy person myself (its a big symptom of ADHD!!!) I can look at MAtthew’s room and get sort of nervous cause it reminds me of what MY room often looks like!
Before I stopped going, he gave me some good tips, like decide what things you absolutely want or need in your room (like clothes, favorite toys and games, CD’s, video games, etc, for a kid) and then make a specific area for each category, and ONLY that thing goes in that category!
As I was telling Matthew in his blog, although having a messy room is often inconvenient to me, the effort of trying to organize it is worse. It is torturously boring, and plus, I often feel like I just don’t have enough SPACE for stuff!
It is very overwhelming for me to be a messy person but it is MORE overwhelming for me to try to clean my room!
Maybe you could try getting Matt’s room organized and clean once and for all, by helping him and maybe making it a fun project somehow… or maybe you could even get a professional organizer to come help! Might be worth it! If his room was completely organized once and for all, without him having to be the one to clean it all by himself and come up with systems for organizing it, maybe it would be easier for him to KEEP it that way???
I am trying to come up with a good organizing system myself, and I had some input from my ADHD counselor dude who I no longer go to because he just talks too quietly and makes me feel hyper.
This weekend I cleaned two big trash bags of garbage out of my room!
Good luck to both of you!!!!!
7 Phat Phannie (formerly Cakehead) // Nov 5, 2007 at 5:55 am
Oh gosh, that takes me back. The good news is my room looked like that a lot of the time and I’m actually a neat freak now. For the most part. The bad news (for Matthew) is that I still had to clean it up. I’m with mom on this. I also completely agree with Kristen
8 Tina // Nov 5, 2007 at 10:38 am
I am going to have to agree with Mel on this one, that room is in desperate need of cleaning and organizing. I like MommaKim’s suggestions best on more organizing and having more storage. I had a very messy room growing up, and part of my problem was I didn’t have enough room in my drawers or closet for everything. I am still a very cluttered person, but I find having a home in which to put things helps me. Cleaning is a very tough, hard and boring job, but if you can get it to the point where it would only take an hour a week of picking up and putting away then it wouldn’t be so bad. Even with things in their own spot it would still be your own space, if you decided where things were placed.
Okay I am babbling
Good luck with the cleaning and organizing.
9 Kelley // Nov 5, 2007 at 11:20 am
My view is not popular. I have had many the argument about it.
Short version is: As long as there is a clear path from the bed and computer (yes, both my girls have computers in their rooms *gasp*) to the door, there is no food in there and the washing is in the laundry they can live however they please.
Moderately long version: My mother is a clean freak. She used to rearrange my room while I was at school and go through EVERYTHING when I was at school camp. I felt violated and that I had no space of my own.
but as I see it, it is their domain. Kids need privacy and their own space.
I used to clean my girls rooms for them when they were little but once they hit 10 it was their domain to do with as they wish.
Too (14 and Aspie - I don’t talk about it on my blog as she has asked me not to, which is her choice) still lives in relative squalor. Not dirty, I go in when she is there and dust and vac for her, just messy. Moo on the other hand has started getting ‘house proud’ and is mortified if one of her friends turns up and her room is a mess. Her friends know of our agreement and think that my girls are the luckiest kids on earth
However, Matthews room needs work. There is no clear space from the bed/computer to the door (in case of fire or huge freaking spider!) The cords under the desk need tidying and covering from dust (again fire hazard), and unless he likes the futon it should be replaced with heaps of open shelves for him to store his things in easy reach.
No kid wants to clean their room, but there is a difference between untidy and dangerous - dangerous being tripping over stuff in the middle of the night, spiders nesting in clothes and toys on the floor, mice if there are food scraps and being able to exit the room quickly in case of emergency (or a mother trying to find said child in room!)
10 christine // Nov 5, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Yikes! I have pictures of my kids’ room like that…around here somewhere in this mess! I can sympathize with Matthew. I’m the type of person that likes a job with a start and a definite finish. I’m a messy person by nature and keeping things tidy is a never ending job.
That said, I can also sympathize with mom. There’s nothing worse than thinking you’ve finished the never-ending job of laundry, only to have someone complain they don’t have a clean something-or-other because they didn’t put their dirty laundry in the hamper or their clothes are too wrinkled to wear in public (that happens more often, the clothes are clean, just not put away or even folded, even though they went into the room folded!). Or they can’t find something, because it’s lost in the mess of their room.
I like my kids learning from natural consequences but I don’t like things getting broken either, their dad spends too much time at work for the money that paid for those things. I have been known to take those precious things that aren’t being taken care of and tuck them away safely until that certain someone agrees to take proper care of the item. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. If they never bother to notice it’s missing, it’s out of here!
11 Earnest Iconoclast // Nov 5, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Vote for mom… though I do believe that the kid should have a say in how his room is organized and should be able to propose ways to clean and keep it clean.
Learning to keep your room clean is an important skill that will help in life. If you can develop the habits now, then you will find it MUCH easier to keep your house, office, etc… clean when you don’t have a mom to force you. Also, when it comes to things like laundry and food, cleaning up is necessary. Wearing clean clothes is not negotiable nor is keeping food from building up.
EI
12 Kristin // Nov 5, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Mattew - Clean your room.
Mel - Help him the first time to find a place for everything, even if that means going out and buying shelves, boxes, bins whatever.
My vote is for Mom. Kids deserve their own place but parents deserve the respect of their kids keeping it clean. It doesn’t have to be perfect but everything should have a place.
13 Daisy // Nov 5, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Tell him my blind teenager (age 15) has a cleaner room than that, and he can’t see where the things go.
(I know, that’s reaching pretty low to rationalize your point, but if the blind kid can find the clothes hamper….)
14 s'mee // Nov 6, 2007 at 1:25 am
I am the mom of 5 grown kids. 3 boys and 2 girls who shared, according to gender, two 10×10 rooms until they moved away from home. (think about that for a minute 3 teenage boys in a 10×10) It’s everyone’s home, everyone is responsible for it.
*Clean the room together. Tell him this is the last time.
*Get the storage low and (photo) labeled.
*Teach him how to organize his things. Some kids just need to be taught to sort.
*Make sure everything is front row accessible, not behind/on top this or that.
*Get rid of “too much stuff” (clothes, toys, books, etc.) - the more you have the harder it is to keep organized and clean.
*Give everyone a chore or two. If he doesn’t do clothes well, swap it out for something else he can do, trade jobs between kids, or whatever, but everyone needs to be responsible for the house.
*Expect them (all family members) to do their part well.
*Go over rules for cleanliness in regard to fire hazard and safety.
*Give him a certain level of messiness (according to above safety rules)and tell him if he crosses that point there will be severe consequences.
*Give him a clear cleaning schedule. (once a week, once a month, whatever)
*Keep the doors closed.
*Keep your eyes closed during the in-between cleaning times. Allow his standard to be lower than yours, but above the minimum health code.
15 Maddy // Nov 6, 2007 at 4:05 am
Don’t know if I’m really qualified to comment on this as my children are only in their rooms when they’re asleep so they rarely mess them up.
I think I were in your or his shoes, I would put everything into plastic bin liners until it was empty, clean it myself and then negotiate over where ’stuff should go’ that would be easy for him to maintain. Bit feeble I”m afraid. BEst wishes and best of luck!
16 Heather // Nov 7, 2007 at 6:24 am
My vote is for Mom with the addendum that cool storage items be procured for kid in which to keep his stuff.
Order equals sanity in our house. I WISH my mom had made me keep my room neater, because learning to do it now has been one big exercise in yickness.
17 Aimee Greeblemonkey // Nov 10, 2007 at 7:19 am
I can’t go to read Matthew’s side just yet. I am too busy gouging my eyes out from looking the mess! Holy maloly, that’s like my worst nightmare!
18 Maman // Nov 10, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Hey! If I didn’t know any better I would say that is my daughter, Imelda’s room. Except of course, it would be littered with shoes “borrowed” from my room and strewn with apple cores and candy wrappers… Clothes would be less of an issue, since children prefer to undress in the living room. And no, I can’t explain that….sigh.
19 Redneck Mommy // Nov 11, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Good golly man, clean that damn room!
(This from the woman who used to have rotten apple cores under her bed growing up…)
20 Julie // Nov 12, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I vote that he gets to keep the room as he wants it with two conditions.
1. no food containers - a health hazard
2. a “firelane” to the exit - also a safety hazard - if there ever WAS a fire, he would not be able to get safely to the door with all the piles of burning rubble.
If these “conditions” cannot be met with three warnings, then the room gets clean.
21 Don // Nov 13, 2007 at 3:12 am
I finally made it a rule that no one comes in and he doesn’t leave to do anything unless the room is picked up, and by picked up I meant by MY standards.
So, the first time, he and I cleaned it up together. Afterward, I encouraged him to take a good look at it. If the room didn’t look like that, he shouldn’t be asking me to have friends over, or to go anywhere.
Freedom has its price, you know.
22 kellypea // Nov 13, 2007 at 9:21 am
I’m with Kelley. After raising three boys, I think it just doesn’t matter. But they didn’t get to take their stuff out of their bedroom to play because they were out of space, either. I can smile about that now. In the long run, it doesn’t matter. What did matter to me is our relationship, and arguments over the condition of their bedroom were a waste of time and energy. Now that the last one is 15, we’ve been re-doing his bedroom. Sorting things, painting, and he’s been choosing what he wants it to look like. It’s helped. So has getting rid of much of his stuff. He didn’t want to part with it at first, but now realizes that it was stressing him out because it was always in the way. I credit maturity for most of where we are with the whole thing now.
23 Casdok // Nov 13, 2007 at 10:32 am
You have to smile!!
24 Amber // Nov 14, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Mel,
I stumbled upon your site in search of Colorado moms who blog. I am the editor for The Denver Post’s new site, Mile High Mamas. Our official launch is scheduled for next month and I am currently trying to build up our local blogging community. Would you like to be added to our blogroll?
Let me know!
25 Sara // Nov 14, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Mom wins.
I make my eight year old straighten his room EVERY day so that it doesn’t get too bad, and once a month we deep clean (I help). I instituted this rule after wondering for days why the house smelled bad and finally found the rotten easter egg with accompanying maggots.
26 Tapped Out // Nov 15, 2007 at 9:10 am
[…] ← The Great Debate […]
27 Las Vegas guy // Nov 18, 2007 at 7:35 am
LOL. Looks like my room when I was a kid. I grew out of it, so there’s hope.
28 Eight Days. Eight days? Eight Days!?!?! // Dec 17, 2007 at 10:29 am
[…] do have several things I want to get written. The results of The Great Debate with pictures, some things about homeschooling and Asperger’s Syndrome, and the awful thing I […]
29 The Great Debate…Finally Some Results! « In the Air // Dec 23, 2007 at 3:04 am
[…] about nine million years ago, The Boy and I squared off on the issue of his messy room. You all voted and gave very well thought out suggestions. All big improvements on my approach to […]
30 The Great Debate…Finally Some Results! // Dec 23, 2007 at 8:03 am
[…] about nine million years ago, The Boy and I squared off on the issue of his messy room. You all voted and gave very well thought out suggestions. All big improvements on my approach to […]
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